that i thought was really, really fascinating was we asked him about the new kind of politics, the obama of 2008 and where that had gone, and he mentioned two things that have been a real challenge, one was institutional reforms, specific references to the filibuster and, secondly, the media environment, the world in which we live where we only really listen to the people that we agree with, msnbcs or foxes of the world and there's a sense of -- >> sarah palin even said something, and she did not specifically talk about fox, is that we're preaching to the choir is what she said. >> amen. >> i think there's a growing sense that there's a need for a media -- for media outlets and opportunities that are not necessarily centrist but have different perspectives to make it easy for us to hear people who we disagree with and actually engage on the merits and not recycling old ideas. >> there's a specific problem, as well, in that we have all trained ourselves or many of us have trained ourselves to go directly past anyone's argument to their motivations and that actually is what you hear a lot